Sport for Business
Sport for Business
Inside Ulster Rugby's Commercial Evolution with Keith Shorten
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Keith Shorten invites us inside the commercial engine room of Ulster Rugby, revealing how his unlikely path from KPMG accountant to global entertainment executive with AEG perfectly prepared him for the challenges of provincial rugby.
The Head of Commercial shares candid insights about arriving at Ulster during a perfect storm of change - the conclusion of their long-standing Kingspan partnership, a head coach departure, and CEO transition all within his first three months. Rather than being deterred, Shorten's background working with iconic venues like the O2 Arena and Hyde Park Festivals helped him navigate these waters while bringing fresh perspective to Ulster's commercial strategy.
What really shines through is the fascinating collaborative relationship between fiercely competitive Irish rugby provinces. While Ulster, Munster, Leinster and Connacht battle for supremacy on the pitch, their commercial teams work closely behind the scenes. "Four voices are very much stronger than one," Shorten explains, as they tackle common challenges together.
The conversation reveals Ulster's commitment to growing women's rugby and the commercial opportunities it presents. We also discovered how Shorten helped create Ulster Rugby's thriving Business Club, which consistently attracts 150 attendees representing 100+ companies.
Between reflections on his personal rugby journey (including memories of carrying Cornettos and celebrating Ulster's 1999 European triumph), Shorten shares exciting developments, including the new SAM Mouldings shirt sponsorship and a soon-to-be-revealed stadium naming rights partner.
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Hello and welcome to the Sports for Business podcast. I'm your host, rob Hartnett, and today we're talking to Keith Shorten, the head of commercial at Ulster Rugby and a man who has been in position for the past 18 months, having spent the earlier part of his career working across some of the biggest global sports and entertainment brands there are. It's an interesting conversation.
Speaker 1:I travelled up to Belfast to what was known as Ravenhill, what is currently known as Kingspan Stadium, but which will, from very shortly, be known as something else entirely. We talk about sponsorship, about rugby, about entertainment and about putting on a really great show for the fans. It is a really interesting conversation and Keith's background background working with some of the biggest entertainment companies in the world while he was over in London before coming back to Belfast gives a really interesting and quite different perspective at times. I hope you enjoy the conversation here in the sunshine up in Belfast, at the home of Ulster Rugby, and it is a time when things are quieter at the end of the season. I'm here delighted to be so, with Keith Shorten, who is the head of commercial up here in Ulster Rugby, 18 months into the job. You're very welcome onto the Sport for Business podcast.
Speaker 2:Keith, Thank you. It's great to be here Quiet part of the season. I would make a question. I don't know if there's ever been a quiet part in the 18 months, but I think that's part of the rule.
Speaker 1:I always love saying it to people who work within the commercial side of sport. That's when the finals are all done and dusted and everybody else has gone away for the summer. Finals are all done and dusted and everybody else has gone away for the summer. That's when all of the renewals come in. That's when all of the hard work really starts.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's always planning, there's always uh, you know so many different deadlines, so many different time scales, um, but, and that's what keeps it interesting yeah absolutely. It's been a few Fridays I've finished for the day, thought brilliant I'm, you know, on top of everything, and then we'll come in Monday and it'll just be a whole new world of challenge and um, but that's uh that's the fun.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's what keeps us excited exactly. Keep us on our toes. It's sport. It can't all go in a straight line, or else it's there's no jeopardy. Um, tell me a little bit about yourself, about your own story, first of all, before we get into where things are at with Ulster now at the moment. But what was it that brought you to this chair?
Speaker 2:Brought me to the chair. So I guess, if I go back, I'm originally from Lisburn, which is just a few miles down the road, and I went to Glasgow for my university career. I played all forms of sport, without ever excelling in any one particular form, but you know, sport for me was all about participation, all about enjoyment. Um, I learned a lot through sport with regards to communication, with regards to teamwork, um, with regards to getting your head down and really getting stuck in and also the enjoyment of sport, um, has always been keen. So I've always played sport and I hope I always will.
Speaker 2:After Glasgow, I followed friends in London, to be honest, without a real game plan of where I wanted to be in five years or 10 years or potentially what actually I really wanted to do. I got a great graduate scheme with KPMG at the time and that, you know, opened my eyes to the world of business. I was with them for six or seven years and after the six or seven years I knew I wanted to do something other than accountancy management consultancy. You know, I wanted to get my hands dirty and I really wanted to find a way of sort of combining a passion that I had with a career. So I joined a company called AEG. So they're one of the largest entertainment companies in the world, so the areas and the rights that they would own would be the O2 Arena, the Hyde Park Festivals, the well that'd be in the UK Wembley Arena. They're part of ASM now they also.
Speaker 2:At the time we owned the Thames Clippers. We had presence in Stockholm, in Hamburg, in Berlin, and it was fantastic. So it was the world of entertainment being like music and sport, and I joined there as an analyst and really worked my way up, loved my time Again being in the world of entertainment. Every day was different, every challenge was different. The company was expanding. We were getting bigger and bigger. It was a very exciting place to be and I learned a lot through starting as an analyst. Expanding um. We're getting bigger and bigger. It was a very exciting place to be um and I learned, I learned a lot um through starting as the analyst. I became a senior analyst and so became a manager.
Speaker 2:I became then head of um, the european strategy division, um, or the head european strategy analyst, and then I moved into the sponsorship world.
Speaker 2:So I spent, uh, probably my first six or seven years there um questioning the numbers that the sponsorship guys were. I spent, uh, probably my first six or seven years there, um, questioning the numbers that the sponsorship guys were uh were throwing at me and their projections and you know, their forecast to then suddenly being on the other side of it. And I worked for some great people um, you know, paul Samuels and Chris Marking there and, um, hugo Brady and things and suddenly I was on the other side and I was the one who was, you know, predicting these numbers, forecasting, you know, targeting who the new market entries are, building packs, you know, trying to build what a partnership could look like, and then ultimately getting out and speaking to these companies. And again it was fascinating, it was fantastic. The company owned some of the biggest you know, there were some of the biggest right holders in the world and what I got to work on was incredible and it really gave me the space for where I am now.
Speaker 1:It's a fascinating world as well, because it's different to sport. Sport, one of the great benefits of sport is that it has a very linear narrative, so you can you can get involved in a team or a club or a stadium or a sport and you know pretty much where you're going to be in five years time and in 10 years time the venues, the dates, the time of the year and all the rest of it. But in music and entertainment it's completely different. So you're working on a much shorter time frame and generally on a kind of a single hit for a festival or anything like that exactly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's a big build-up. There's one event it has to go right. It has to be delivered for the partners. Um, you know, everybody has to get the return. The partner needs to get what they need out of the relationship. Um, the brand needs to get the the benefits. And it's uh, it's a fascinating world. Um, covid then hit and something happened that I never, ever planned, assumed, thought would be on the cards, and that was.
Speaker 2:I moved back to Northern Ireland, driven from my Australian wife who, through her career, had suddenly had the opportunity to work remotely. We had young children and it was just the right time. So we moved back and we very quickly realised that both of us working for a firm based in London was going to be difficult, with travel and who was available one week and who was the other. And then a decision was made. I decided that I needed to find something more local. Then the decision was made. I decided that I needed to find something more local and I joined another incredible business in Titanic, belfast, as their commercial director and in Titanic, again, a great platform. My eyes were open. I got a lot of experience for more hands-on commercial work F&B, dealing with merchandise partners and helping that business get back on track post-COVID on commercial work, f&b, dealing with merchandise partners and helping that business get back on track post-COVID and the whole redevelopment that was going on?
Speaker 1:Yeah, was that working with Tim Husbands or had he Tim had moved on so he had moved into the world of sports.
Speaker 2:So he was working for Judith Owens, who is a great figurehead of Titanic Belfast, and what she has done to that business in the last 10 years is incredible. Um, you know, the the tourism and ultimately the money that it puts back into the economy of Northern Ireland, um, because of people coming to visit that attraction is incredible and it's an incredible experience as well, and it continues to grow. But when I was there, there was just I always had an itch, and that itch was I really missed the sports entertainment angle. Um, you know, that was my passion, that was what really got me going. And, um, suddenly, one friday afternoon my phone rang and, uh, I was presented with the opportunity of applying for the job of head of commercial at Ulster Rugby and it was just something I couldn't turn down. So that is how I ended up in this seat.
Speaker 1:Okay, you said you played a lot of sport. Did you play rugby when you were younger?
Speaker 2:No, I played rugby up to the age of about 11, and then there was a choice of rugby and hockey. So I played hockey until to the age of about 11, and then there was a choice of rugby and hockey, so I played hockey. I played hockey until probably about 35, and it started getting in the way of kids on Saturday afternoons and things like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, hamstrings get a little bit tighter, A bit tighter yeah.
Speaker 2:But I played hockey, cricket, football, many sports.
Speaker 2:I guess the Rugby Schools Cup is a massive schools competition and my claim to fame that I will always have over my brother, who represented Ulster and Ireland for rugby and cricket, is the fact that I won the Schools Cup in hockey and he didn't and he didn't yeah.
Speaker 2:So that's something I'll always have over him. But just sport whether watching playing was just always captured my imagination and, as you say, it's that sort of unpredictability of sport, the chance for the small team, the big team, the unheld sports star, to come through, the, the sort of fascination that I think that we have, um, as a you know country, um being ireland, of sports stars and the rich sports men and women that we've had over the years with you know, being blessed, and it's something that really grabs imagination and people get behind and even here looking around at the ground, which has obviously been redeveloped, is a wonderful, modern, fit for purpose stadium now, but there's still the arch, there is still a real sense of history around it, so that you know the greats that have been through Ulster Rugby and played for Ireland the Willie John McBride's, all of the you know like legends across the entire island of Ireland.
Speaker 1:You arrived in and you've arrived into an Ulster Rugby which you know even in recent memory has been European champions, into a ground which has staged a Rugby World Cup final with the women's when it was held here in Ireland. So you know this is big time. This is big time sport. You know this is, this is big time, this is big time sport. But it's, you know, it's in a, it's at a time when it's just in. One of those kind of ebbs and flows is that the fans still think every start of the year, yep, we're going to be challenging, for, you know, european rugby and everything else that goes with it. But that's sport. Sometimes it's kind of a little bit tougher. When you came, and I guess within a couple of months, it was a bit of a bombshell in terms of your world and the sponsorship side.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there was again. So, working directly in sport, the first thing that really hit me was the role of the fan Incredibly important and incredibly important that every fan, every supporter, whether it's a child, right up to the many generations of sports fans which are involved in our club and in clubs up and down the country, everybody's got an opinion. Country, everybody's got an opinion. Um, suddenly I became the most popular person that, uh, you know my kids tennis, rugby, hockey, whatever it may be, schools gates, everybody wanted to talk ulster rugby. So that was a bit of an eye-opener to me.
Speaker 1:Um, and I. You were responsible for everything. You were picking the team. You were exactly you would. You were training the kickers.
Speaker 2:You would yeah and you what the reading, what you know, when they were back from rehab, whatever it may be. So, yeah, that was an eye-opener. And then, yeah, I mean I really sort of have joined in a period of flux in terms of you know, I joked to many people that I could have written a book for my first 100 days in the job. We had obviously the decision jointly between us and Kingspan that we were going to step away after one more year. After they'd been involved for 24 years, 11 of which they'd been stadium and front of shirt partner. We had a change in head coach during that period as well. We had a change in head coach during that period as well. Dan had been here for many years and it was decided that a new direction was required.
Speaker 2:We also had a change of CEO, who had ultimately trusted me with the role and had brought me in, and that was all within three months, multiple variables, multiple variables you would have called it as an analyst, yeah, so I think there were a few times I was pulling my hair, thinking what's next. But you know, thankfully, you know those are the three big surprises and they have remained the three big surprises. We have been doing a lot of work and in the last year and a half last year, um very much driven by Hugh McHackey, who's coming as CEO um to stabilize, to agree long-term planning, to agree focus, a strategy, you know, risk registers, um and to really add a lot of governance around the club, because it's vitally important. We were the governing body of 51 clubs across Ulster and 107 schools and they are growing and that's vitally important for us as Ulster Rugby. And to be able to do that you need a stable platform and we have, I firmly believe, now got that stable platform and I'm incredibly excited about the future going forward.
Speaker 1:Yeah, very much so. And it's an interesting point because when people from outside they think of Ulster or Connacht or Munster or Leinster, they think of the 15 players running out in white or blue or red or green or whatever it might be, and they think of the stadium, and they think of the 15 players running out in white or blue or red or green or whatever it might be, and they think of the stadium and they think of the TV rights and all of the rest of it. But the provinces are very much in the kind of, you know, in the middle of the pyramid and it's the base of the grassroots that really supports everything else. Daily calendar is there a number that you kind of feel is the right number as to how much time you spend looking to one side of the house, um, in terms of that, and then the other side, in the, you know, the bigger days under the, under the brighter spotlight?
Speaker 2:yeah, that's a very good question.
Speaker 2:I think if I could split myself into a couple it would be great, um, but it is an ecosystem, so the grassroots are incredibly important, um, and that's all the way from school boy girl participation to clubs um up to ulster and then ultimately through the irfu and, uh, I mean it was a complete eye-opener when I joined in terms of what ulster rugby um governs, in terms terms of how important it is in the ecosystem and how important it is that it governs correctly and that we bring the next generation of men and women through ultimately to represent Ulster Rugby on a Friday, saturday night on our pitch.
Speaker 2:There is a huge focus on the women's game at the moment, which is incredible and something that we, very much driven by Hugh, are behind Whether it is looking how we can commercialise the women's game to bring more money into the game that's a sort of task that sits with myself and also how we can get a fully contracted team in place with the correct infrastructure underneath at club level and so that you've got a proper pipeline of players coming through, because it's the fastest growing sport in Ireland. The women have been incredible over the past couple of years in their trajectory. They're going to world cup um in september of this year. We've got a number of ulster players who are in that squad and, uh, you know the world's oyster, and I kind of wait to see how the women's game is going to look in a few years time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and this province and this place has got a really important part in that, like you mentioned, hosting the rugby world cup final when it was here a few years back. But I was here when Scotland were beaten so that the qualification for England was secured and I remember the huge, big styrofoam qualified banner coming out and everything else. So Ulster Rugby and the stadium have been really central to that.
Speaker 2:Very central. So actually the fixture you mentioned when we beat scotland here again, it was televised on bbcni um. It was, you know, prime time on a saturday afternoon, saturday sunday afternoon, but we actually broke the record that day for the most ticketed women's six nations fixture, which really shows the support of ulster fans and wider rugby fans at the get behind um the the ladies, and I think there was an ulster rugby men's match here on the friday night beforehand as well, just on the night it was yeah.
Speaker 2:So yeah, it shows again. You know a very I'd say we've got a small team, but what an incredible team that we have in terms of what they can do in terms of turning this pitch around and making our pitch and our grounds available to the wider sport of rugby. We had over 65 games this fixture this season on the pitch. Last year we had about 45, and prior to that, when we had a grass pitch, we would have had about 30. But the increase in games has come from domestic game. It's come from women's games, um, it's come from our few um and even today we've got ireland under 20s playing scotland under 20s in their last game before they go off for um, their next championship.
Speaker 2:And we I mean we recently hosted ireland women's versus france and part of six nations, we had ireland's versus France. It was part of Six Nations. We had Ireland Women's versus Australia in September last year. But there's so many other domestic games. We've got more school games going on now in the pitch. We've got more domestic competitions and it's fantastic for me. It drives new people through the stadium.
Speaker 1:It's new ticketed attendees, attendees it's new eyeballs for me putting my commercial hat on for our partners, um, and you know it's really using the stadium for what it should be and that's a yeah, a real asset to rugby across ulster and the future-proofing of being a mom or dad watching a son or daughter run out into the stadium that just makes it a very special place in your in your heart that you're never going to walk away from oh, exactly, no, it's uh, you know it's incredible.
Speaker 2:Just excitement and game night. You know the mascots, the, the primary school competitions and things we put on. Just seeing that joy and excitement, and even trepidation at some time, of our young fans and followers who are getting the opportunity to run out to the pitch and to meet their heroes, it's special. I stopped playing rugby when I was 11, 12, whenever the decision at school of playing one sport or another. One of my earliest memories is playing on this pitch, which would have been a grass pitch at the time, at a school competition, a P7 competition, and the fact that I've got that memory. For someone who you know, sport has been an importance, not particularly rugby, but that's one of my youngest, earliest memories of playing sports.
Speaker 1:So it's of importance even at that level to me of of being associated with ulster rugby and being on that pitch there is one of our other sports, that that advertises the fact of a child going along to a match, and they said that they they never remember the score, but they remember the feeling, and I bet you're the same, that you just remember the feeling more than whether a try was scored or who scored it or anything else, yeah, yeah, 100%, like I.
Speaker 2:Um, I mean, 1999 was also an incredible year for Ulster Rugby and I was very fortunate to be down at that game with my father and my brothers and you know I knew Ulster won. I had to look up the score the other day because someone asked me about it. But my biggest memory of that day, two biggest memories one is, uh, getting as many free cornettos as I could eat, yeah, and obviously, uh, an activation by a sponsor. And the other big one was being on the pitch. Um, at the final whistle we were lifted over and you know off, we went um, and that was, you know, an incredible memory. Um, and it's something that'll, you know, help forever and that's the power of sport it is indeed.
Speaker 1:Let me bring you back from the heart back to the head. Yes, yes. So kingspan came to an end. Mutual and great stuff that had been done over that period of 20 odd years beforehand.
Speaker 2:Um, but it didn't actually take long to actually get a replacement in for the front of shirt sponsorship uh, yes, so we um, you know we're incredibly fortunate a lot of hard work by ulster rugby, by my team, um, and also just finding an incredible partner um in some moldings so some old things are the biggest um df producer in the uk.
Speaker 2:They're based in antrim, they've got a strong rugby background and heritage in the family structure and they're very much a family business. We just hit it off in terms of their values, our values, the synergies, their focus and drive to where they want to take their business and where we are planning, and very much on course, to take Ulster Rugby in the next five years. So it was, I don't know, match made in heaven. Probably sounds cheesy, but it was just incredible from day one and we're really, really glad that we had that opportunity um to to meet sam mccray and um paul and kat and all the members of their team it is great and very much a family business as well, very much family business and, um, you know, they're proud local supporters of domestic rugby as well.
Speaker 2:I'm very excited where we can take it. We had a kickoff meeting last week and the energy in the room, um, it's incredible great and the kids look fantastic next year, so okay, when are they going to be released?
Speaker 1:um start of august start of august okay, we guarantee we'll carry that on. Yeah, for business. Anyway, early august, with the air, with the nice, the nice shot. I do remember a couple of years ago actually walking through belfast, in the city, and there's the, the intersport elvery store there just opposite city hall, and I remember seeing purple. It must have been a third jersey, or something yeah we've had a few uh yeah, a few questionable jerseys over the past year purple.
Speaker 1:Purple is is, purple is sport for business, purple is me, so I thought oh, that's pretty. Yeah, yeah, but by the time I got back to actually get one of those. I think they had all been gone.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we had a questionable blue top a few years ago that I don't think our supporters or fans will ever let us away with. So no, we're very much back to the heritage of Ulster Rugby, but actually I don't want to give too much away.
Speaker 1:No, no, no, no no, no, no, no, we will. We will wait and see. Tell me something Within the ecosystem of Irish rugby, you work with each of the other provinces, as well as with the IRFU as well. How close is that relationship? So you're uber competitive on the field of play, yeah, but in the offices and on the emails and in the meetings, I'm sure that you're all fellow travelers in this world of commercial rugby, very much so.
Speaker 2:So the provinces, we would work very closely together. I say on the pitch, incredibly competitive, but off the pitch, incredibly collaborative for growing the game of rugby. Even yesterday I was down in Dublin with the provinces at Commercial Leeds looking at how we can be more collaborative, going forward, to grow the game, to get more people in the game, to create new sponsorship opportunities, new partnership opportunities, and it's something which is very important. A fan in Ulster is no different really than a fan down in Cork or Dublin or wherever they may be. Everyone will support their local team. But how we can work together to make that fan experience the most enjoyable, how we can learn together and how we can collaborate, is key.
Speaker 2:I've got very good relationships at a commercial, at a CEO level again, there'll be weekly calls very strong relationships. At comms level, very strong relationships. It's fantastic when there is an issue. It's generally an issue if it's a legal issue, a leak issue. Yeah, four voices are very much stronger than one. Yeah, and it's it's. You know, I love working with the guys and girls from in similar roles across provinces because it's, it's insightful, it's learning, it's collaborative.
Speaker 1:There is something about sport. Who knows what it is? It's probably the fact that it is so. Who knows what it is? It's probably the fact that it is so. Um, you know variable, that you know you can be. You can be a hero one day and then you can be right down in the gutter the next. But that gives a sense of jeopardy within a working environment which I think just works really well and it attracts really good people in to work with it as well. Um, you've you've also set up the Ulster Rugby Business Club, which I've been fortunate enough to be at and to be invited to speak at on the power of communications. The atmosphere in the room at those is really special as well, and these are businesses that haven't got their name on the stadium or their name on the shirt, but they are businesses that want to be part of the Ulster Rugby story. Where did that come from and how has that grown and succeeded?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so the idea had been there for, you know, prior to my arrival, but it had always been an idea of we knew we had in our support base. We had an incredible network of businesses and we needed to build a mechanism to bring those businesses together through the power of sport um for for networking, for bring them into the ulster rugby family. So we set up the ulster rugby business club um in association with nl goodbody, who have been a fantastic title partner for us to provide that opportunity and it's been fantastic. We are in our fourth official meet today. We'll have 150 people in the room businessmen, businesswomen, and that will represent about 100 different businesses and it's incredible, it's one of few networking events and I'll probably sound biased here, but there'll be people queuing to get in before the doors open and we will be trying to usher people out at the end of it. And there's been so many successful stories from brands who have done business in that room.
Speaker 2:Um, and it's it. It's the power of rugby. Um, I mean I just again, not potentially not being someone who played rugby, you know, at clubs, or past the age of 11, it just blows my mind the community that is there If you have played rugby at some point, whether at school level or at club level, at any level within that club. You forge partnerships for life, friendships for life, and it's brilliant that we're able to tap into that at any level within the club. You, just you forge partnerships for life, friendships for life, um, and it's it's brilliant that we're able to tap into that. And the business club it's um, it's all sport, um, it's not purely rugby, um, you know we've had fascinating speakers from the world of, uh, you know, netball swimming, um, we had um, so we kicked off with uh to and Hannah Bow, his sister, yeah, and you know that was incredible, just the energy between those two. And actually it was brilliant to see Hannah put Tommy in his box a few times.
Speaker 2:It was brilliant yeah, it was brilliant In between running the Six Nations, as she was at the time Running the Six Nations, and someone with incredible background of hockey, yeah, which you know is probably not, uh, you know, wildly known, but incredible sports person in their right. But that's, that's the sort of caliber of speakers that we are bringing to these events and it's um, you know, it's brilliant, cool, um, we, we have to go because we have to be on stage in a short while before we disappear and thanks so much for taking the time.
Speaker 1:Um, I tried to arm wrestle out of you any information on the uh on on the stadium naming rights, but maybe we'll come back to that at some point in the summer yeah, let's just say um, we've got an exciting announcement to make, um, and I cannot wait to share it with you.
Speaker 2:Um, but, uh, we'll maybe give you the exclusive wow further down the line, but that's uh for the moment. For the moment, we'll maybe give you the exclusive further down the line, but that's for the moment. We'll park that.
Speaker 1:Before we go, a couple of quickfire personal questions. Normally I ask people what their earliest and early childhood sporting memory, but you've given me that that's the Cornettos and the Aviva Stadium and Ulster as champions of Europe. But given your background, what was the best gig that you were at when you were working with AEG?
Speaker 2:Oh, that is a good question. It's going to sound really bad, but years ago, bon Jovi and Hyde Park they're probably I don't know 10 years ago it was one of the first Hyde Park festivals. I was there with some friends I think we're all very close of the Bon Jovi fans from our younger years and they we were in the due to my links. We were in this sort of golden circle and it was just, uh, just one of those nights, you know, beautiful sunny evening in London and uh, we all had an incredible time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think every young boy everyone.
Speaker 2:Yeah, young guy got a little bit of john bonjoe yeah, all right.
Speaker 1:Um, how about, uh, are you a reader? Give me, give us a book that you might have enjoyed or that you go back to time and time again I would love to say I'm a reader, but my three kids really restrict my ability to read at the moment.
Speaker 2:It's usually a couple of pages and then I fall asleep. Yeah, um, so more uh, audiobook at the moment if I'm driving. Couple of pages and then I fall asleep. Yeah, um, so more uh audiobook at the moment if I'm driving up and down to dublin and things um. A book that I actually have read a few years ago and I've just re-listened to it uh, shoe dog. Um, it's the story of nike. So again, a lot of some wife jokes. But the majority of books I read are autobiography or sport related books and I must have almost every book that's ever been nominated for anything and I go back to them and I read them two or three times over. But it's one I've listened to and read recently and I think it's a fascinating book.
Speaker 1:It is great, and it's great because of the downs as much as the ups as well.
Speaker 2:Exactly, it's the real life.
Speaker 1:Oh Nike, oh yeah, they've always been really successful. But there were those moments which all of us have had, where you kind of you know, in a sliding door moment it could have all gone pear-shaped. Great okay, netflix night in or a night at the movies. I'm guessing with the three kids it might be more the former.
Speaker 2:Yeah, if I get a night out, I wouldn't be going to the movies. Okay, based, get a night out, it's uh, I wouldn't be going to the movies. Okay, um, based on. They're few and far between at the moment and uh yeah, I'd be somewhere else, but um so yeah, it's more nights in at the moment and crossing fingers that uh, our one-year-old's not gonna make an appearance at three, four or five in the morning.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's the pause button, I guess I'm telling you, if they wake up during when you're trying to do something and then waking up in the middle of the night, yeah, that can't be helped, but it also passes. Yeah and uh. How about tea or coffee? Oh, very much coffee. I don't think I've ever had a cup of tea in my life. You're good, um, I'm very much with you on on that one. Um, if you were to be given a golden ticket, you've obviously been to a lot of the big events around the world, working as you have. Outside of rugby, though, what would be the sporting event that you would say, oh yeah, I'd love to do that?
Speaker 2:I think would have to be a world cup final. Okay, um, you know, olympics very special, a very special moment or part of my life when I was in london for 2012 and I went to so many events. But I just think a World Cup final would be special With any of the home nations and Ireland one of the five playing in. It would be incredible.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've always wanted to do that as well. I wonder have we missed the ultimate World Cup final? Messi and Mbappe in Qatar. That was visceral. Watching it on the television. I can only imagine what it must have been like to be there. Last question before we go if I had a table in a fancy restaurant in belfast and I gave you three seats to fill not anybody that you're related to, because we'll take it as a given I'd find you an extra seat.
Speaker 1:So your wife and the three kids, but outside of that. So a figure from history, from sport. They can be dead or alive. Who would you like to break bread with?
Speaker 2:uh, so I'm going to cheat slightly. So eddie jordan number one, alex ferguson number two and the brownlee brothers number three. They can, okay, I mean, they can sit in each other's lap if they need to, but, um, you know, I just think one of the most magic moments of sport in the last 10 years is when, uh, when they carried each other over the line. Yeah, um, I mean, that's what sport is. Yeah, that was, uh, that was magical, and what they put into their sporting careers is, uh is incredible.
Speaker 1:So I'd love to hear the back, the backstory. Yeah, listen, it's been great the emotion, the connection of sport coming back to family in your early memories and with the Brownies as well, bringing it all the way here. I look forward to chatting to you again over the summer when we were able to announce he was going to be on the on the stadium. But congratulations on what you've achieved in these 18 months and thanks for taking the time with us today. Keith Shorten Brilliant, thank you. That was great chatting to Keith. It has not been a great season on the field of play for Ulster Rugby, but that is only the part of it, and with a brand new sponsor on the shirt for next season and a brand new as yet to be revealed, revealed name on the stadium, things are certainly looking up Richie Murphy in place as a really good head coach as well, and I would be very confident that Ulster Rugby are going to put up a big performance good, strong management in place there, with Hugh McCockie in the CEO role as well. So lots, lots to enjoy, lots to like and really enjoyable conversation. I hope you liked it.
Speaker 1:We've got plenty more coming up next week. On Sport for Business, we are doing a series on pride, including interviews with a number of those who are on the front line across a number of different sports. We will be looking at the GAA Championship in detail, and the next up in our leadership series is going to be Ender Lynch, the CEO of Badminton Ireland. If you want, you can sign up to get notification of the podcast when they drop, wherever you get your podcast from, and if you want to know more about the commercial world of sport in Ireland, north and south, you can do so at sportforbusinesscom. My name is Rob Hartnett. It's been a pleasure talking to you over the course of the last 40 minutes and I hope we can do so again.
